1 00:00:21,999 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:27,740 --> 00:00:24,650 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:30,980 --> 00:00:27,750 episode number 221 for the 12th of 4 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:30,990 January 2013 Richard Saunders here with 5 00:00:36,050 --> 00:00:33,690 you from Sydney Australia yeah they 6 00:00:38,060 --> 00:00:36,060 predicted a terribly hot day today and 7 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:38,070 it's warm I'll grant you looking outside 8 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:40,050 the window it is warm but it's not the 9 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:43,170 stinking hot horrible day they predicted 10 00:00:46,970 --> 00:00:45,050 I think that's good news for 11 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:46,980 firefighters around the state of New 12 00:00:49,910 --> 00:00:48,600 South Wales and around the whole country 13 00:00:53,570 --> 00:00:49,920 to which has been having a bit of a 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:53,580 rough time lately anyway on today's show 15 00:00:57,380 --> 00:00:55,170 we're going to kick off with Maynard 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:00:57,390 spooky action not at a convention this 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:00:59,730 time Maynard has a chat to our good 18 00:01:04,969 --> 00:01:02,130 friend Brian Dunning from skep dude calm 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:04,979 about one of his very latest episodes of 20 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:09,090 vascepa toid giant worms Maria safe 21 00:01:14,390 --> 00:01:10,950 you're listening to this podcast late at 22 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:14,400 night snuggled in your bed falling to 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:17,640 sleep maybe some giant worms and other 24 00:01:23,630 --> 00:01:21,210 monsters will invade your dreams giant 25 00:01:26,270 --> 00:01:23,640 worms with Maynard and Brian Dunning 26 00:01:29,630 --> 00:01:26,280 coming up pretty soon after that it's 27 00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:29,640 dr. Reggie reports once again dr. rachey 28 00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:32,070 appeared on the national TV show the 29 00:01:38,170 --> 00:01:35,070 project this time it was to comment on 30 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:38,180 the anti-vaccination book Melanie's 31 00:01:43,910 --> 00:01:41,970 marvelous measles now since dr. rage she 32 00:01:46,250 --> 00:01:43,920 went on the project over the last few 33 00:01:49,550 --> 00:01:46,260 days this book Melanie's marvelous 34 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:49,560 measles has been getting a lot of very 35 00:01:55,130 --> 00:01:52,770 very bad publicity around the world it's 36 00:01:58,100 --> 00:01:55,140 good to see and I've put some links up 37 00:02:01,070 --> 00:01:58,110 at www skeptics on TV for more 38 00:02:04,190 --> 00:02:01,080 information and we'll be discussing this 39 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:04,200 at length during the think tank yes to 40 00:02:07,850 --> 00:02:05,520 round off the show it's the think-tank 41 00:02:09,859 --> 00:02:07,860 their traditional the good old think 42 00:02:12,050 --> 00:02:09,869 tank down at our favorite club at the 43 00:02:14,269 --> 00:02:12,060 end of the street with Diane dr. Rachel 44 00:02:15,890 --> 00:02:14,279 Joe Benna mu or answer give and myself 45 00:02:18,019 --> 00:02:15,900 and one of the other important matters 46 00:02:19,260 --> 00:02:18,029 will be discussing in the think tank is 47 00:02:21,690 --> 00:02:19,270 the news that Meryl 48 00:02:23,630 --> 00:02:21,700 Cory has stepped down from the 49 00:02:26,610 --> 00:02:23,640 presidency of the Australian 50 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:26,620 anti-vaccination Network very 51 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:29,650 interesting news indeed and as I was 52 00:02:33,570 --> 00:02:31,570 preparing to record this little 53 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:33,580 introduction it's also come to my 54 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:36,250 attention that their magazine living 55 00:02:43,170 --> 00:02:40,690 wisdom will cease publication Wow lots 56 00:02:46,260 --> 00:02:43,180 of news on the anti-vaccination front 57 00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:46,270 for this week don't forget you people in 58 00:02:50,250 --> 00:02:48,220 the canberra area there's a free 59 00:02:53,310 --> 00:02:50,260 screening of here be dragons on the 60 00:02:56,910 --> 00:02:53,320 twentieth of January head to the 61 00:03:00,090 --> 00:02:56,920 Canberra skeptics website which is wwm 62 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:00,100 bruh skeptics org dot au for more 63 00:03:04,530 --> 00:03:02,290 information and of course we're looking 64 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:04,540 forward to later this year in november 65 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:06,490 when the Canberra skeptics will be 66 00:03:11,010 --> 00:03:08,800 hosting the Australian skeptics National 67 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:11,020 Convention also it's not too long now 68 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:13,810 until i get the skeptic zone gang 69 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:16,570 together and even those are members of 70 00:03:22,650 --> 00:03:19,330 the skeptic zone team overseas will chip 71 00:03:24,449 --> 00:03:22,660 in contribute to the the script the 72 00:03:27,150 --> 00:03:24,459 script which I'm just about the finish 73 00:03:28,949 --> 00:03:27,160 this week and the local skeptics own 74 00:03:32,310 --> 00:03:28,959 team are looking for a time we can all 75 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:32,320 get together and record a special show 76 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:34,990 very soon very soon I hope looking 77 00:03:38,490 --> 00:03:37,270 forward to that but for now I'm not 78 00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:38,500 going to run downstairs because right 79 00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:40,000 here I've got one of my favorite drinks 80 00:03:49,980 --> 00:03:46,959 of all time ah good old fashioned soda 81 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:49,990 water and this hot day I'm going to sit 82 00:04:09,430 --> 00:03:52,890 here enjoy this wonderful soda water and 83 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:13,900 here's my not spooky action at a 84 00:04:20,830 --> 00:04:19,360 when you're talking monsters from around 85 00:04:23,110 --> 00:04:20,840 the world there could be none more 86 00:04:25,540 --> 00:04:23,120 scarier than the mongolian death worm 87 00:04:27,310 --> 00:04:25,550 which is rumored to eat people just 88 00:04:29,650 --> 00:04:27,320 comes out of the ground as a sort of a 89 00:04:31,150 --> 00:04:29,660 death ray and goes woo and eat you 90 00:04:32,740 --> 00:04:31,160 someone who's done some recent 91 00:04:34,990 --> 00:04:32,750 investigations into this as part of you 92 00:04:37,450 --> 00:04:35,000 skip toy program is Brian Dunning hi 93 00:04:39,490 --> 00:04:37,460 Brian how are you hey man how are you 94 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:39,500 doing pretty good now look I am very 95 00:04:43,090 --> 00:04:41,330 excited by this because the Mongolian 96 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:43,100 Death Worm a lot of a lot of us in 97 00:04:46,030 --> 00:04:44,330 Australia think about this a lot because 98 00:04:47,980 --> 00:04:46,040 you never know it's going to do extra 99 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:47,990 bit of digging south and it'll end up 100 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:49,970 here now it's a pro that's good you 101 00:04:53,710 --> 00:04:52,010 describe the myth around this creature 102 00:04:55,690 --> 00:04:53,720 it's really scary it's gonna be a bit of 103 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:55,700 a death ray thing going on too hasn't it 104 00:05:01,000 --> 00:04:58,610 it does yes it's it is it's often 105 00:05:04,060 --> 00:05:01,010 described as the the deadliest of all of 106 00:05:06,070 --> 00:05:04,070 the cryptozoology beasts it's a it pops 107 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:06,080 up out of the sand and and it's said to 108 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:07,370 be able to kill people at a distance 109 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:09,890 with either some sort of an electrical 110 00:05:14,350 --> 00:05:11,810 shock sort of like an electric eel or 111 00:05:16,090 --> 00:05:14,360 some say that it squirts venom but yes 112 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:16,100 it can kill at a distance or it kills 113 00:05:21,070 --> 00:05:18,890 instantly on touch and now stories of 114 00:05:23,290 --> 00:05:21,080 this Mongolian Death Worm have been 115 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:23,300 around for how long hundreds of years 116 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:25,070 this is something that the locals 117 00:05:31,690 --> 00:05:28,730 genuinely believe in it's really hard to 118 00:05:34,690 --> 00:05:31,700 learn the whole history of the Mongolian 119 00:05:37,150 --> 00:05:34,700 Death Worm it's easy to track down how 120 00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:37,160 its history became known to to the 121 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:40,100 Western literature but as far as its its 122 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:43,490 original Genesis it appears to be to 123 00:05:48,460 --> 00:05:45,050 have been a traditional belief that's 124 00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:48,470 very commonly held among Mongolians at 125 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:51,680 least as far back as the 1920s and 126 00:05:57,220 --> 00:05:54,170 probably much longer it seems to be a 127 00:06:00,460 --> 00:05:57,230 traditional belief that many people in 128 00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:00,470 in in the Mongolian backcountry in the 129 00:06:05,230 --> 00:06:03,440 rural areas of Mongolia would just seem 130 00:06:07,390 --> 00:06:05,240 to take it for granted that this is an 131 00:06:08,830 --> 00:06:07,400 actual animal that lives out there it's 132 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:08,840 not something that I did they just 133 00:06:14,410 --> 00:06:10,850 pulling the legs of any foreigners who 134 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:14,420 visit no it doesn't seem like it is it 135 00:06:21,630 --> 00:06:16,160 seems to have been taken very seriously 136 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:21,640 by western and european parties of 137 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:23,810 oncologists and geologists who have made 138 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:26,090 expeditions scientific expeditions into 139 00:06:30,020 --> 00:06:28,370 mongolia one of the most the board of 140 00:06:33,860 --> 00:06:30,030 the best known 141 00:06:37,010 --> 00:06:33,870 comes from a book in 1926 where an 142 00:06:40,310 --> 00:06:37,020 American paleontologist named Roy 143 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:40,320 Chapman Andrews was getting permits to 144 00:06:44,090 --> 00:06:42,330 get his Mongolian expedition going so he 145 00:06:46,310 --> 00:06:44,100 was meeting with mongolian government 146 00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:46,320 officials and they asked him hey while 147 00:06:49,310 --> 00:06:48,030 you're out there can you collect one of 148 00:06:51,980 --> 00:06:49,320 these things for us and they were quite 149 00:06:54,410 --> 00:06:51,990 serious about it and what evidence is 150 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:54,420 there you are these boring guys who seek 151 00:06:59,360 --> 00:06:57,330 the evidence what evidence is there has 152 00:07:02,840 --> 00:06:59,370 anyone caught one Scene one photograph 153 00:07:04,930 --> 00:07:02,850 one even heard the noises of one nothing 154 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:04,940 nothing nobody has ever seen 155 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:07,290 photographed or had a specimen of one 156 00:07:12,110 --> 00:07:09,510 there's never been any evidence of one 157 00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:12,120 there's even when you when you would 158 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:14,220 speak to Mongolians these parties of 159 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:15,330 scientists who would go there when they 160 00:07:20,420 --> 00:07:17,100 would speak to Mongolians they would 161 00:07:22,340 --> 00:07:20,430 almost always say my brother saw one or 162 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:22,350 the cousin of my wife's mother in-law 163 00:07:26,540 --> 00:07:24,690 saw one very few people would claim to 164 00:07:28,010 --> 00:07:26,550 see one selves but everyone seems to 165 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:28,020 believe that the person next door has 166 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:30,570 actually seen one now is this some night 167 00:07:35,660 --> 00:07:32,670 to the snake or something that could 168 00:07:38,140 --> 00:07:35,670 have been misidentified III don't think 169 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:38,150 so there there a number of western 170 00:07:41,780 --> 00:07:39,930 cryptozoologist who study these 171 00:07:45,410 --> 00:07:41,790 mysterious animals that some believe 172 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:45,420 exists have tried to classify it they've 173 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:47,370 looked at similar species species of 174 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:50,210 snake species of worms species of eels 175 00:07:56,420 --> 00:07:53,850 and none of them are a plausible match 176 00:07:59,000 --> 00:07:56,430 despite you know these well-intentioned 177 00:08:01,190 --> 00:07:59,010 efforts to try and find some some actual 178 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:01,200 taxonomy for this creature it's it's 179 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:03,690 almost certainly not a real animal so 180 00:08:07,610 --> 00:08:05,610 why does it still persist is it just an 181 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:07,620 area of the world where superstition can 182 00:08:14,570 --> 00:08:10,370 take called very easily and won't let go 183 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:14,580 is certain they certainly within within 184 00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:16,590 Mongolia it's not going to be any 185 00:08:20,210 --> 00:08:18,180 different from from many other ancient 186 00:08:22,310 --> 00:08:20,220 places in the world and people what 187 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:22,320 places where people have deep-rooted 188 00:08:27,380 --> 00:08:24,930 suspicions traditions that's that's not 189 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:27,390 uncommon at all what are the Mongolian 190 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:28,770 Death Worm has gained a lot of traction 191 00:08:34,130 --> 00:08:31,260 has been in these recent years since the 192 00:08:36,620 --> 00:08:34,140 early 1990s when it became largely known 193 00:08:40,610 --> 00:08:36,630 to the Western cryptozoology literature 194 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:40,620 and its ability to kill at a touch has 195 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:43,110 made it really exciting as far as 196 00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:43,769 cryptid 197 00:08:47,419 --> 00:08:45,839 go you know nobody claims to have been 198 00:08:50,119 --> 00:08:47,429 killed by a Bigfoot or the Loch Ness 199 00:08:51,739 --> 00:08:50,129 monster but but but this little thingy 200 00:08:53,929 --> 00:08:51,749 has apparently killed everyone who's 201 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:53,939 seen it I think that's what makes it so 202 00:08:58,249 --> 00:08:56,610 intriguing and interesting so do you 203 00:09:00,079 --> 00:08:58,259 think people will persist in looking 204 00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:00,089 forward even though there is a distinct 205 00:09:06,079 --> 00:09:03,360 lack of evidence yes absolutely there is 206 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:06,089 there is not a cryptid in the world that 207 00:09:11,389 --> 00:09:07,889 doesn't have a dedicated base of 208 00:09:14,079 --> 00:09:11,399 supporters who go and search for it you 209 00:09:17,449 --> 00:09:14,089 may have heard it last year there was a 210 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:17,459 party of American young Christian men 211 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:20,850 who raised a lot of money and took an 212 00:09:26,449 --> 00:09:24,170 expedition to Africa to seek dinosaurs 213 00:09:28,460 --> 00:09:26,459 believing that if they found dinosaurs 214 00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:28,470 it would prove the young earth theory 215 00:09:32,869 --> 00:09:30,420 and that the Bible was literally true 216 00:09:35,419 --> 00:09:32,879 people are actually out there spending 217 00:09:37,419 --> 00:09:35,429 real money tracking down animals that 218 00:09:39,739 --> 00:09:37,429 there is no possible plausible 219 00:09:41,059 --> 00:09:39,749 likelihood of their existence now this 220 00:09:43,059 --> 00:09:41,069 is your favorite one I know you've 221 00:09:46,789 --> 00:09:43,069 looked at a couple of different crypto 222 00:09:48,650 --> 00:09:46,799 Zoological allegations over the years 223 00:09:50,569 --> 00:09:48,660 and the Loch Ness monsters it runs 224 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:50,579 favorite Bigfoot of course is up there 225 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:52,410 but the Mongolian Death Worm is there 226 00:09:57,109 --> 00:09:53,850 anything weird than that that you've 227 00:10:00,319 --> 00:09:57,119 heard of weirder than that of the 228 00:10:02,689 --> 00:10:00,329 weirdness I'm not sure how you quantify 229 00:10:07,129 --> 00:10:02,699 weirdness on the on the cryptozoology 230 00:10:08,929 --> 00:10:07,139 scale it's a it's it's everywhere but 231 00:10:11,449 --> 00:10:08,939 everyone did a live creatures that are 232 00:10:13,429 --> 00:10:11,459 what but we do discover new creatures 233 00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:13,439 every year there's new creatures that we 234 00:10:17,629 --> 00:10:15,600 thought would weren't around or a new or 235 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:17,639 extinct every year so there is a 236 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:19,170 possibility that these things are 237 00:10:26,539 --> 00:10:23,970 somewhere well not not really the way 238 00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:26,549 the way that that's commonly stated it's 239 00:10:31,309 --> 00:10:28,769 why not search for these animals since 240 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:31,319 since scientists do discover new species 241 00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:34,110 all the time scientists who actually go 242 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:36,360 out into the field collecting insects 243 00:10:40,579 --> 00:10:38,730 and specifically looking for something 244 00:10:42,829 --> 00:10:40,589 that they have a good idea that it 245 00:10:44,119 --> 00:10:42,839 actually exists or more likely they're 246 00:10:46,189 --> 00:10:44,129 not searching for something they just 247 00:10:48,769 --> 00:10:46,199 come upon something that's how new 248 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:48,779 species are found we've never had in the 249 00:10:53,019 --> 00:10:50,850 industry of sometimes we've never had a 250 00:10:55,340 --> 00:10:53,029 new species be discovered by 251 00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,350 cryptozoologist or something that is an 252 00:10:59,810 --> 00:10:57,360 unexplained animal that's that's room 253 00:11:01,250 --> 00:10:59,820 to exist and we have non-scientific 254 00:11:03,050 --> 00:11:01,260 people going out into the field and 255 00:11:06,650 --> 00:11:03,060 encountering it that's never happened 256 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:06,660 once so no I don't expect that that the 257 00:11:10,579 --> 00:11:08,370 cryptozoology community is going to find 258 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:10,589 a mongolian death worm or a Bigfoot or 259 00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:13,230 or a Yahweh or or what have you drop 260 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:15,540 bears etc so you're suggesting that we 261 00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:17,250 leave the science to people like 262 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:19,920 biologists well leaving the science to 263 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:21,630 the biologists certainly but leaving the 264 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:24,570 legend and the end you know the 265 00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:26,310 interesting fun storytelling parts to 266 00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:28,380 the people who to go out and search for 267 00:11:31,850 --> 00:11:30,420 for cryptids and things like that that's 268 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:31,860 where the value of these animals are 269 00:11:35,810 --> 00:11:33,690 it's not it's not like you're going to 270 00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:35,820 draw some real useful science out of the 271 00:11:39,769 --> 00:11:38,100 story of the Mongolian Death Worm we are 272 00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:39,779 going to draw some really interesting 273 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:42,120 legend some interesting personalities 274 00:11:47,329 --> 00:11:44,310 some interesting sociology about how the 275 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:47,339 how and why the belief exists that's the 276 00:11:51,980 --> 00:11:50,130 value of these stories it's it's wasting 277 00:11:53,540 --> 00:11:51,990 the story to look for science in it 278 00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:53,550 because it's not that type of a story 279 00:11:58,670 --> 00:11:56,040 now Brian last year was a big year for 280 00:12:00,699 --> 00:11:58,680 Bigfoot hunting in the US with the show 281 00:12:02,150 --> 00:12:00,709 searching for Bigfoot but even 282 00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:02,160 cryptozoologists were a little bit 283 00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:04,100 embarrassed by that effort weren't they 284 00:12:08,329 --> 00:12:06,959 I think anyone who anyone who owns a 285 00:12:10,370 --> 00:12:08,339 television was a little bit embarrassed 286 00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:10,380 by that effort you see that's that's 287 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:11,640 exactly what I'm talking about they were 288 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:14,310 trying to they were trying to express it 289 00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:16,170 as if this is the literal animal that 290 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:18,230 actually exists and of course it's not 291 00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:20,610 you're always going to look like a loser 292 00:12:23,329 --> 00:12:22,320 if you try and go out take your camera 293 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:23,339 out in the woods and say I'm going to 294 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:25,110 film a Bigfoot well there are no 295 00:12:28,430 --> 00:12:26,730 Barefoot's it's like taking camera into 296 00:12:31,009 --> 00:12:28,440 a haunted house to hoping to get a 297 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:31,019 picture of a ghost your film is going to 298 00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:32,040 be pretty boring and that's what 299 00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:33,839 happened to them we joked and we called 300 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:37,470 the TV show not finding bigfoot and of 301 00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:39,290 course there was the the UF ology show 302 00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:41,519 chasing ufos which is a little bit 303 00:12:44,930 --> 00:12:43,560 similar there's a lot of running jumping 304 00:12:48,439 --> 00:12:44,940 standing still mainly with night-vision 305 00:12:51,079 --> 00:12:48,449 cameras but even people who into the 306 00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:51,089 field of the UFO investigation found 307 00:12:54,259 --> 00:12:52,560 that show embarrassing because they were 308 00:12:56,900 --> 00:12:54,269 just making a TV show running jumping 309 00:12:59,360 --> 00:12:56,910 and standing around the dark yeah it's 310 00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,370 it's a poorly conceived idea for a 311 00:13:03,259 --> 00:13:01,440 television show to actually take your 312 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:03,269 camera out and go and look for something 313 00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,490 that's mythological there are much 314 00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:08,160 better ways to approach the subject if I 315 00:13:10,350 --> 00:13:09,360 were going to make a documentary about 316 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:10,360 the angolan 317 00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:12,490 Death Worm I would not take a camera out 318 00:13:15,870 --> 00:13:14,320 to Mongolia and go poking through the 319 00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:15,880 sand with a stick because that's going 320 00:13:19,889 --> 00:13:18,100 to be a very boring video you have to 321 00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:19,899 look for where the real value in these 322 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:22,300 stories is and it's it's in the history 323 00:13:25,949 --> 00:13:23,350 it's in the legend it's and the 324 00:13:27,210 --> 00:13:25,959 personalities in the sociology and how 325 00:13:29,310 --> 00:13:27,220 many discussions have you had with 326 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:29,320 people at conferences about this that 327 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:31,390 are passionate about this and it's very 328 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:33,010 difficult for you to get across to them 329 00:13:36,449 --> 00:13:34,570 that that probably this is a myth and 330 00:13:39,930 --> 00:13:36,459 not a real thing how do you when you 331 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:39,940 encounter person that passionate yeah 332 00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:43,570 you know I i I've realized long ago that 333 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:47,440 trying to change their mind is it's not 334 00:13:51,329 --> 00:13:49,690 only a losing proposition it's it's not 335 00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:51,339 the best way to take advantage of the 336 00:13:56,009 --> 00:13:53,920 situation I would rather learn what I 337 00:13:59,699 --> 00:13:56,019 can about this legend from that person 338 00:14:01,470 --> 00:13:59,709 so I've given up trying to trying to 339 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:01,480 have an argument with people who have a 340 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:04,510 strange belief instead I want to learn 341 00:14:08,699 --> 00:14:06,670 more about the strange belief and how 342 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:08,709 and why it exists and what we can learn 343 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:10,930 from it and you know how how it can 344 00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:13,180 actually serve us instead of embarrass 345 00:14:17,970 --> 00:14:15,760 us as you say brian dowling from skip 346 00:14:19,769 --> 00:14:17,980 toy com thanks a lot and look if you do 347 00:14:21,810 --> 00:14:19,779 find any crib toys or any strange 348 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:21,820 animals let us know first well I'll run 349 00:14:25,259 --> 00:14:23,410 away from it and then if I X survive 350 00:14:42,610 --> 00:14:25,269 I'll let you know see you later Brian 351 00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,760 greetings skeptics am mrs. do you know 352 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:49,440 what to do in August come to Stockholm 353 00:14:56,810 --> 00:14:52,710 Sweden and meet mr. Nasser is there to 354 00:15:00,650 --> 00:14:56,820 design activists hey Lee Stevens skazka 355 00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:00,660 room upon sleep under cover health 356 00:15:07,390 --> 00:15:03,780 journalist an abyssea meal and many more 357 00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:07,400 at the 15th European skeptics Congress 358 00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:10,800 friday the twenty-third to Sunday the 359 00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:15,180 25th of august in stockholm sweden 15th 360 00:15:26,290 --> 00:15:20,070 european skeptics carcass wwww skeptics 361 00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:26,300 color photography www euro skeptics gone 362 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:39,120 dr. org now it's time for dr. Rachel 363 00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:46,400 doctors say an anti-vaccination but 364 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:48,300 promoting the marvelous health bennett's 365 00:15:53,420 --> 00:15:50,970 of measles is misleading and shouldn't 366 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:53,430 be for sale despite evidence measles can 367 00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,290 kill and cause brain damage the 368 00:15:59,540 --> 00:15:56,880 children's book which is now widely 369 00:16:02,030 --> 00:15:59,550 available online claims the disease is a 370 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:02,040 good thing to have and dr. rachel Dunlop 371 00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:04,500 is a medical expert rachel is this a new 372 00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:06,000 low for the anti-vaccination movement 373 00:16:11,420 --> 00:16:09,900 targeting kids like this hi Carrie well 374 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:11,430 you know nothing surprises me much 375 00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,080 anymore with the anti-vaccine and it 376 00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:14,880 seems nothing is too low for them but I 377 00:16:19,010 --> 00:16:17,070 mean this is pretty insidious that it's 378 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,020 actually targeting children instead of 379 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:21,120 parent in this case and indeed 380 00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:23,010 encouraging kids to get infected with 381 00:16:28,130 --> 00:16:25,190 measles which is a highly infectious and 382 00:16:30,769 --> 00:16:28,140 sometimes a very very serious disease I 383 00:16:32,269 --> 00:16:30,779 mean in the book the child Tina asks if 384 00:16:33,740 --> 00:16:32,279 she can go over and catch the measles 385 00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:33,750 from Melanie and her mother says that 386 00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:35,940 sounds like a great idea suggesting some 387 00:16:39,769 --> 00:16:37,620 carrot juice and melon might help 388 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:39,779 Melanie recovering what do you say to 389 00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:41,850 that what would you say to the author of 390 00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:44,430 this book well I I would suggest that 391 00:16:47,780 --> 00:16:46,350 the author go and ask anybody who's had 392 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:47,790 measles and I'm pretty sure they won't 393 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:49,730 say that they had a marvelous experience 394 00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:52,170 you could ask any one of the hundred and 395 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,820 forty thousand people that died across 396 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:55,440 the world every year except that they're 397 00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:57,330 probably not able to answer any more but 398 00:17:00,770 --> 00:16:58,620 I'm pretty sure they'd say they didn't 399 00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,780 have a marvelous experience I mean we're 400 00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:02,880 talking about a disease that in thirty 401 00:17:06,679 --> 00:17:04,400 percent of cases there are complications 402 00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:06,689 involved in one in ten of those 403 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:08,699 instances kids get hospitalized with 404 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:10,890 pneumonia they can end up with ear 405 00:17:14,329 --> 00:17:12,780 infections that can result in deafness 406 00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:14,339 they can end up with swelling of the 407 00:17:18,439 --> 00:17:16,679 brain and in some very rare cases they 408 00:17:20,030 --> 00:17:18,449 can end up with a fatal degenerative 409 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:20,040 disorder years after the original 410 00:17:24,829 --> 00:17:22,230 infection so this is not something that 411 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:24,839 melon and juice are will ward off and 412 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:26,610 viruses don't care if you've got melons 413 00:17:30,380 --> 00:17:28,530 and juice they are not afraid of that 414 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:30,390 rachel is a fair to say there's more 415 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:32,310 reality in Harry Potter than there is in 416 00:17:37,850 --> 00:17:34,650 Melanie's marvelous measles wherever 417 00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:37,860 it's called yeah I mean what is the next 418 00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:38,940 thing we're going to have fantastic 419 00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:42,900 polio or a wonderful you know meningitis 420 00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:44,460 I mean this is ridiculous and it's 421 00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:46,740 incredibly irresponsible hopefully 422 00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,880 anyone that's read the book or plan 423 00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,679 story the book is listen to you here 424 00:17:55,230 --> 00:17:51,120 tonight Rachel thanks for your wise 425 00:18:00,820 --> 00:17:58,060 dr. Rachel Dunlop is one of Australia's 426 00:18:02,250 --> 00:18:00,830 foremost media commentators in matters 427 00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:02,260 concerning so-called alternative 428 00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:04,790 medicine she has appeared on national 429 00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,600 radio and national television dr. AG is 430 00:18:14,830 --> 00:18:10,880 available for interviews and you can 431 00:18:25,670 --> 00:18:14,840 contact her at Rachel at skeptic zone 432 00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:32,270 I am on it why I existing or even tips 433 00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:33,780 addai some lotion lifted off the skeptic 434 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:36,120 zone I'm skeptical marine Nadia the fins 435 00:18:39,950 --> 00:18:38,250 not a blog gear or petrov a podcast of 436 00:18:42,260 --> 00:18:39,960 reading it skips esteem is leaked on 437 00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:42,270 this door panel central data skips estoy 438 00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:43,830 demo or higher publicize the deeps 439 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:45,900 corner Chiclets and calendar / activator 440 00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:47,850 or lincoln estate association escapes 441 00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:49,200 his blog in opportunity I'm lay of the 442 00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:50,790 biscuit Harris hefty performance so 443 00:19:03,410 --> 00:18:52,860 stick Kingdom or Delta duo's up skips is 444 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:03,420 totes hello join us now for drinking 445 00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:14,370 skeptically in the think tank however I 446 00:19:17,180 --> 00:19:15,480 don't know what you were saying and 447 00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:17,190 what's better where it is but i would 448 00:19:22,460 --> 00:19:19,500 like to welcome you to think tank Diane 449 00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:22,470 hello hello how are you and she is to 450 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:27,720 everybody and of course a big welcome to 451 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:30,090 dr. HC hi dr. hu hi Richard how are you 452 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:31,740 I'm fine and I noticed you've got like 453 00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:33,210 me you have a glass of champagne in your 454 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:35,190 hand and we'll explain them yes there's 455 00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:36,950 a reason for that not just because we're 456 00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:40,310 drinking at the drink tank drunk tank is 457 00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:45,000 God's we are back at the think tank Iran 458 00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:46,950 say give hello Iran hello Richard how 459 00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:48,150 you doin I'm well good to see you again 460 00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:50,520 and Joe Benna new hello Joe hi Richard 461 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:52,470 you're looking particularly smug tonight 462 00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:54,450 I am feeling rather smug cheers again 463 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:56,430 it's so nice to be back in our favorite 464 00:19:59,660 --> 00:19:58,050 clubs down the end of the street there 465 00:20:02,380 --> 00:19:59,670 was a bus announcement earlier but I 466 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:02,390 know it wasn't maybe we'll pick it up 467 00:20:07,070 --> 00:20:04,710 yes it's been a long time it's been a 468 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:07,080 long time indeed what it's been a big 469 00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:09,930 news day in the old skeptical realms one 470 00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:11,220 might say and we've got quite a few 471 00:20:15,260 --> 00:20:12,840 topics to get through because it's just 472 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:15,270 that sort of happening thing I don't 473 00:20:18,370 --> 00:20:16,710 know where we should start by guess we 474 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:18,380 should start with some interesting news 475 00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:23,490 dr. aging well I don't really know what 476 00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:25,440 to say I mean this hasn't been confirmed 477 00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:26,790 yet but we were just sitting here 478 00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:29,070 earlier 20 minutes ago you're chatting 479 00:20:34,790 --> 00:20:32,550 having some food and checks to internet 480 00:20:36,810 --> 00:20:34,800 as we're prone to do quite often and it 481 00:20:49,860 --> 00:20:36,820 there was an article that came out today 482 00:20:51,539 --> 00:20:49,870 Australian doctor sorry okay yeah well 483 00:20:52,860 --> 00:20:51,549 we haven't had confirmation of this yet 484 00:20:54,649 --> 00:20:52,870 but according to an article published 485 00:20:57,419 --> 00:20:54,659 today in Australian doctor magazine 486 00:20:59,399 --> 00:20:57,429 Meryl Dory has resigned as the president 487 00:21:09,090 --> 00:20:59,409 of the Australian vaccination network 488 00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:09,100 you look shocked oh wow how about that 489 00:21:13,919 --> 00:21:12,070 and who's taken a person well the guy 490 00:21:16,019 --> 00:21:13,929 has taken her places name is greg BTW 491 00:21:17,879 --> 00:21:16,029 and he's been recently doing a lot of 492 00:21:19,619 --> 00:21:17,889 seminars with meryl when she when she 493 00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:19,629 was doing a lot of seminars she hasn't 494 00:21:25,740 --> 00:21:22,809 done any for a while he's also written a 495 00:21:31,619 --> 00:21:25,750 book Jay what's a call it's an 496 00:21:35,340 --> 00:21:31,629 alternative export um no I know but he 497 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,350 also is no one because I believe he sued 498 00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:37,120 the Human Rights Commission in Australia 499 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:40,720 a number of years ago for a child care 500 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:42,490 center excluding his children and he 501 00:21:48,629 --> 00:21:46,090 lost that case but in any case if this 502 00:21:51,779 --> 00:21:48,639 is true and as I said we haven't had 503 00:21:54,779 --> 00:21:51,789 confirmation that it is true it's not a 504 00:21:57,149 --> 00:21:54,789 very good thing for the avian because 505 00:22:00,629 --> 00:21:57,159 one of the appeals that Meryl had as the 506 00:22:01,889 --> 00:22:00,639 president and as Iran said earlier I 507 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:01,899 mean you can say what you like about 508 00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,000 Meryl diary but one of the things that 509 00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:06,159 Iran was mentioning before and he's 510 00:22:10,919 --> 00:22:08,559 absolutely right is that she has a great 511 00:22:13,860 --> 00:22:10,929 appeal to parents and to the public 512 00:22:16,379 --> 00:22:13,870 because she's very charismatic she's a 513 00:22:19,049 --> 00:22:16,389 mother so she has the appeal of I had a 514 00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,059 son who had a vaccine reaction so people 515 00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:22,000 can relate to her they can empathize 516 00:22:25,860 --> 00:22:23,440 with her they can sympathize with no 517 00:22:27,570 --> 00:22:25,870 bite for the media yeah I mean she's 518 00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:27,580 very very good with with courting the 519 00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:29,919 media and with managing to get her point 520 00:22:35,610 --> 00:22:31,960 across quite quite well so she's 521 00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:35,620 attractive to the media the guy greg BTW 522 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:37,870 who has allegedly taken over although 523 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:40,690 this is very as i say very review he was 524 00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:43,600 on a television story last night and he 525 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:45,190 doesn't come across nearly as well as 526 00:22:50,879 --> 00:22:48,610 Meryl so in terms of their media 527 00:22:53,850 --> 00:22:50,889 presence I think this is a blow for them 528 00:22:55,529 --> 00:22:53,860 because Meryl had that going for her 529 00:22:57,330 --> 00:22:55,539 absolutely and she had it down pat and 530 00:23:00,060 --> 00:22:57,340 she was very very good at the way she 531 00:23:06,539 --> 00:23:00,070 was entered absolutely yeah yeah what do 532 00:23:10,049 --> 00:23:06,549 you think Jon Jones lost for words 533 00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:10,059 ladies and gentlemen she's too short I 534 00:23:16,169 --> 00:23:13,240 think she's shopping and yes oh you miss 535 00:23:18,419 --> 00:23:16,179 that laugh I nice surprise yeah um again 536 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:18,429 I look I think I think as you said the 537 00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:20,529 main thing is she's been some of the 538 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:23,080 figurehead for the organization for so 539 00:23:28,019 --> 00:23:25,450 long and he's taking over at a time when 540 00:23:29,369 --> 00:23:28,029 you know that there are there in all 541 00:23:31,169 --> 00:23:29,379 sorts of strike oh there are all sorts 542 00:23:34,889 --> 00:23:31,179 of strife for so many different reasons 543 00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:34,899 and their position in the media is I 544 00:23:38,879 --> 00:23:37,120 mean you very rarely hear the mention in 545 00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:38,889 the media these days without you no 546 00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:41,529 negativity following and heard to what 547 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:44,529 it was it's been absolutely and I think 548 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:47,110 very much also that the what Meryl has 549 00:23:51,330 --> 00:23:48,730 always played into is their whole you 550 00:23:54,509 --> 00:23:51,340 know the the the mother with the vaccine 551 00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:54,519 damaged child and all those claims so I 552 00:23:58,619 --> 00:23:56,769 just I just think that it he's he's not 553 00:24:01,529 --> 00:23:58,629 going to be able to end the old both 554 00:24:03,419 --> 00:24:01,539 sides of the story and all that but I 555 00:24:05,129 --> 00:24:03,429 think for from I think I go round would 556 00:24:07,399 --> 00:24:05,139 agree he's looking to join us a sudden 557 00:24:09,210 --> 00:24:07,409 you're looking quite anxious there 558 00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:09,220 because I think that's the really 559 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:10,480 important thing is that the mummy 560 00:24:15,299 --> 00:24:13,570 warriors can relate to another woman who 561 00:24:18,930 --> 00:24:15,309 has gone through something similar to 562 00:24:20,820 --> 00:24:18,940 them and just obviously a father can 563 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:20,830 also empathize with that but it's a 564 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:23,110 different thing I think a woman's very 565 00:24:28,109 --> 00:24:24,970 much it's a particular dynamic that they 566 00:24:39,149 --> 00:24:28,119 or if dynamic so I would but it it's a 567 00:24:42,409 --> 00:24:39,159 particular no need to add F&E 10 edit 568 00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:42,419 that right here 569 00:24:47,989 --> 00:24:46,529 okay I'll ask question so Merrill Dory 570 00:24:49,879 --> 00:24:47,999 spent quite a bit of time online and 571 00:24:52,879 --> 00:24:49,889 managing and being president of the 572 00:25:00,109 --> 00:24:52,889 avian there's what's Warren beasts not 573 00:25:01,369 --> 00:25:00,119 one BTW greg bc it is what does he do 574 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:01,379 does he have can he spend as much time 575 00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:03,090 does he work or do you know what he does 576 00:25:08,899 --> 00:25:05,190 I have no idea I mean he's has written 577 00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:08,909 two books on to an tiebacks books and he 578 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:10,919 did at the last minute drop everything 579 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:14,129 and go on one of mel's recent to his 580 00:25:19,369 --> 00:25:16,710 when she was doing seminars but I don't 581 00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:19,379 know what he does I'm actually willing 582 00:25:25,580 --> 00:25:22,409 to bet that first of all she's not going 583 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:25,590 anywhere he's going to be the president 584 00:25:29,509 --> 00:25:27,450 but you might remember that she actually 585 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:29,519 said she was resigning stepping down as 586 00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:30,450 president did she became the 587 00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:32,720 spokesperson Herman a while back yeah 588 00:25:37,879 --> 00:25:35,609 yeah before the trial before before she 589 00:25:39,349 --> 00:25:37,889 sued the HC and she said she wasn't the 590 00:25:41,299 --> 00:25:39,359 president and she was then she was the 591 00:25:42,830 --> 00:25:41,309 president again and you know so I'm 592 00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:42,840 willing to bet that she will continue to 593 00:25:48,049 --> 00:25:45,840 be the spokesperson because without her 594 00:25:50,869 --> 00:25:48,059 as the spokesperson be without her as 595 00:25:53,749 --> 00:25:50,879 the face of the avian they'll be gone I 596 00:25:55,879 --> 00:25:53,759 want me to say about that because last 597 00:25:57,229 --> 00:25:55,889 night there was a big story on a Current 598 00:25:59,479 --> 00:25:57,239 Affair and they did quite a long story 599 00:26:01,519 --> 00:25:59,489 on the avian and and she was not in that 600 00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:01,529 story around it was great BTW now you 601 00:26:06,349 --> 00:26:04,049 know how media hungry she is and you 602 00:26:08,599 --> 00:26:06,359 know how narcissistic she is when it 603 00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:08,609 comes to getting attention she'd passed 604 00:26:12,979 --> 00:26:11,279 up the opportunity apparently Iran so 605 00:26:15,619 --> 00:26:12,989 shocked he dropped his class and then 606 00:26:17,899 --> 00:26:15,629 the way that we got this news just 607 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:17,909 earlier tonight was that he was quoted 608 00:26:22,399 --> 00:26:19,529 in an article as the president of the 609 00:26:24,379 --> 00:26:22,409 ABN so that to me doesn't differentiate 610 00:26:26,659 --> 00:26:24,389 between spokesperson and president he's 611 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:26,669 the one now Oh in the last week who's 612 00:26:31,159 --> 00:26:29,129 been speaking and met the mouthpiece for 613 00:26:32,989 --> 00:26:31,169 the Oviatt have any have any former 614 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:32,999 emails been sent out by the avian of the 615 00:26:38,749 --> 00:26:36,570 change under is so new honestly this is 616 00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:38,759 just before we started recording this 617 00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:40,590 news came to our turn me look I have to 618 00:26:45,499 --> 00:26:43,200 I have to say that a number of us have 619 00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:45,509 been monitoring the activity that's been 620 00:26:50,749 --> 00:26:47,460 happening in the organization for the 621 00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:50,759 last few months maybe six months and we 622 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:52,169 have been suspicious that something is 623 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:53,970 going on purely from the perspective of 624 00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:54,890 they've led a lot of thing 625 00:26:59,970 --> 00:26:57,350 slaps their website is hacked to the 626 00:27:02,170 --> 00:26:59,980 bejesus a lot of the pages are broken 627 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:02,180 they've been neglecting their Facebook 628 00:27:06,940 --> 00:27:05,150 page they haven't sent out any action 629 00:27:10,090 --> 00:27:06,950 alerts like they used to and have there 630 00:27:11,770 --> 00:27:10,100 been publishing a magazine publishing a 631 00:27:13,180 --> 00:27:11,780 magazine but they haven't even been 632 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:13,190 blogging very much they've actually been 633 00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:16,340 republishing blog posts from other nut 634 00:27:20,350 --> 00:27:18,920 jobs like the nvic and stuff so they're 635 00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:20,360 not even very anything is that the 636 00:27:23,860 --> 00:27:22,280 equivalent of Froot Loops I think it is 637 00:27:26,110 --> 00:27:23,870 a criminal free late this sounds like 638 00:27:28,410 --> 00:27:26,120 breakfast cereal I said fruit loops oh 639 00:27:31,390 --> 00:27:28,420 my gosh their activity has dropped off 640 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:31,400 significantly in the last few months and 641 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:36,230 so we have seen greg BTW coming up in 642 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:38,450 the ranks a little bit and i think 643 00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:40,280 they've been trying to sort of my 644 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:41,990 opinion is that she's been grooming him 645 00:27:47,050 --> 00:27:44,330 for a little while so i'm not actually 646 00:27:49,150 --> 00:27:47,060 that surprised but the fact that she is 647 00:27:51,070 --> 00:27:49,160 now shying away from media attention to 648 00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:51,080 me is very suspicious because she loves 649 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:53,960 the media that is actually very telling 650 00:27:58,900 --> 00:27:57,290 i wasn't aware of that because well when 651 00:28:01,210 --> 00:27:58,910 a Current Affair plays in Australia I'm 652 00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:01,220 still at work it's but it's around 653 00:28:06,610 --> 00:28:04,940 lunchtime for me yeah no definitely well 654 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:06,620 that's that's the interesting breaking 655 00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:09,290 news tonight folks tonight and we're 656 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:11,150 recording this on a Thursday night 657 00:28:16,930 --> 00:28:13,550 thursday the the word isn't the tent 658 00:28:19,570 --> 00:28:16,940 there's a the 10th now in the same vein 659 00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:19,580 and of course folks you would have heard 660 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:22,190 dr. reach his latest appearance on 661 00:28:26,110 --> 00:28:24,050 national television on the Pope well 662 00:28:28,570 --> 00:28:26,120 done dr. HC on the project thank you I 663 00:28:30,220 --> 00:28:28,580 had really good feedback about that no I 664 00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:30,230 got a phone call from a really scary guy 665 00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:34,220 from The Who well I got a doctor from 666 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:39,230 the a professor who is on a committee to 667 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:41,570 do with vaccination with the World 668 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:46,250 Health Organization and I went talking 669 00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:52,250 about Peter Frampton however the topic 670 00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:54,110 of courses listeners will remember 671 00:28:59,350 --> 00:28:56,960 because they've just heard it was this 672 00:29:00,910 --> 00:28:59,360 wonderfully interesting book and I use 673 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:00,920 the term wonderful in the bizarre 674 00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:03,650 context Melanie's marvelous measles 675 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:05,120 track that statement which you might 676 00:29:08,270 --> 00:29:06,890 have to do that now listeners may well 677 00:29:10,550 --> 00:29:08,280 remember that 678 00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:10,560 uh maybe even up to a year ago we did 679 00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:12,120 mention this book on the think tank 680 00:29:18,860 --> 00:29:14,430 Melanie's marvelous measles and we had a 681 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:18,870 few jokes about it but before you Joe 682 00:29:22,550 --> 00:29:21,210 and Iran and dr. Ricci turned up here 683 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:22,560 tonight at the think tank I was having a 684 00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:24,570 chat to Diane and we spent a good half 685 00:29:31,460 --> 00:29:27,350 an hour coming up with some alternatives 686 00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:31,470 some alternatives to Melanie's marvelous 687 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:34,320 measles now there's people out there 688 00:29:39,290 --> 00:29:36,570 might wish to publish another book or 689 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:39,300 another series in the series Diane even 690 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:42,450 and if I may here's what diana night 691 00:29:46,130 --> 00:29:44,820 before you actually launch it is it spot 692 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:46,140 to give it a context during really may 693 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:47,970 not be familiar with this which is that 694 00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:50,480 Melanie's marvelous measles is a 695 00:29:54,890 --> 00:29:52,440 anti-vaccination book written 696 00:29:56,690 --> 00:29:54,900 specifically for children that's right 697 00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:56,700 that's right but we've come up with some 698 00:30:01,010 --> 00:29:58,530 other titles specifically for children 699 00:30:03,860 --> 00:30:01,020 of course and here are some of the at 700 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:03,870 the other titles at Diane and I dreamt 701 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:06,570 up over our Chinese dinner there was 702 00:30:12,530 --> 00:30:09,450 over Chinese dinner instead of Melanie's 703 00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:12,540 marvelous measles why not Henry's happy 704 00:30:19,090 --> 00:30:15,180 hepatitis Dorothy's delightful 705 00:30:22,460 --> 00:30:19,100 diphtheria Chloe's clever chlamydia 706 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:22,470 Matthew's magical melanoma Penelope's 707 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:25,530 precious pertussis Gemma's glorious 708 00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:28,650 gangrene Merrill's mendacious 709 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:32,760 myxomatosis Peters priceless pox Nora's 710 00:30:39,170 --> 00:30:36,090 nice pneumonia car is colossal cancer 711 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:39,180 Lenny's luxurious leukemia Henry's 712 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:42,210 helpful herpes Warren's wonderful warts 713 00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:45,210 has more folks Paul is pleasant polio 714 00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,510 Ralph's ravishing rabies Terry's 715 00:30:54,410 --> 00:30:51,120 tremendous tumor Reubens rambunctious 716 00:30:58,370 --> 00:30:54,420 rubella Michael's magnificent mumps 717 00:31:02,480 --> 00:30:58,380 Phil's fantastic flu Olga's outstanding 718 00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:02,490 authors Sarah's sumptuous syphilis 719 00:31:10,990 --> 00:31:06,150 peppers persistent plague Cedric's 720 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:11,000 sizzling what psoriasis thank you 721 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:14,310 Gloria's great gonorrhea Ben's brilliant 722 00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:17,010 botulism Ernie's excellent Ebola 723 00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:20,870 Gordon's grandiose glandular fever 724 00:31:27,870 --> 00:31:24,440 Titanic tetanus Eric's exceptional 725 00:31:31,420 --> 00:31:27,880 emphysema when these wondrous worms 726 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:31,430 maria's majestic meningitis Susie's 727 00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:35,530 sensational scabies Tony's terrific TB 728 00:31:43,950 --> 00:31:39,550 Collins kind cholera Fred's funny fungus 729 00:31:47,950 --> 00:31:43,960 Lisa's likeable lice and Hannah's heroic 730 00:31:51,460 --> 00:31:47,960 hemorrhoids you should put that to music 731 00:31:56,290 --> 00:31:51,470 retreat oh no I actually think that's um 732 00:31:57,850 --> 00:31:56,300 that's just page 17 of the Merc guide so 733 00:32:00,370 --> 00:31:57,860 that took a little bit of time but we 734 00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,380 had a good good time doing that but it's 735 00:32:06,130 --> 00:32:03,440 just as stupid as absolutely 736 00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,140 mind-boggling ly stupid as Melanie's 737 00:32:11,470 --> 00:32:09,440 marvelous measles what a list but Rachel 738 00:32:14,590 --> 00:32:11,480 I don't think that Diane and I had an 739 00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:14,600 original idea well no there is already a 740 00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:16,100 website out there that's selling three 741 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:18,710 books very similar to your version it's 742 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:21,650 called blissful blight books and the 743 00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:23,210 titles so far there's it's actually 744 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:25,400 quite not as many titles as you have 745 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:27,530 done notice thorough but there's marks 746 00:32:33,549 --> 00:32:30,170 magnificent meningitis oh yes there is 747 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:33,559 poles Pleasant polio and there is 748 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:36,710 Susie's sensational smallpox along the 749 00:32:40,330 --> 00:32:38,210 same lines I think that we were thinking 750 00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:40,340 of dying i'll just give you the sort of 751 00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:42,350 summary of what polls pleasant polio is 752 00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:45,980 about and the cover is afraid of a young 753 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:49,160 boy in inside an iron lung and it's got 754 00:32:52,390 --> 00:32:50,630 a little butterfly in the corner very 755 00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:52,400 similar to Melanie's marvelous measles 756 00:32:59,950 --> 00:32:57,679 and it's written by I Ron loan and it 757 00:33:01,780 --> 00:32:59,960 says when Paul got a stiff back and had 758 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:01,790 trouble bending his neck he hoped and 759 00:33:06,610 --> 00:33:04,730 dreamed that it would be polio then his 760 00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:06,620 body was naughty and stopped his lungs 761 00:33:11,770 --> 00:33:09,110 from breathing luckily he got to spend 762 00:33:13,299 --> 00:33:11,780 lots of time in an iron lung a huge 763 00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:13,309 machine that helps him breathe by 764 00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:15,230 applying a vacuum to his entire lower 765 00:33:19,690 --> 00:33:18,260 body when his friends come over they all 766 00:33:21,970 --> 00:33:19,700 gather round the iron lung to play 767 00:33:24,010 --> 00:33:21,980 astronauts and Paul gets to be Michael 768 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:24,020 Collins while his friends pretend to be 769 00:33:28,970 --> 00:33:26,370 Neil and Buzz 770 00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:28,980 isn't that the life isn't that the 771 00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:30,510 lightweight site is called blissful 772 00:33:35,510 --> 00:33:33,360 blight books worth a visit don't put a 773 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:35,520 link from I think I'll definitely put a 774 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:37,530 link from the show notes now Joe it's 775 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:40,890 this is stories really taken off dr. ray 776 00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:42,809 cheese report on the project is just an 777 00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:44,400 example but there are certainly many 778 00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:46,830 more um yeah look I'll give you a bit of 779 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:49,380 background the the book was actually 780 00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:51,090 published about a year ago and got a bit 781 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:54,030 of attention from people who are very 782 00:33:58,370 --> 00:33:55,410 involved in dealing with the 783 00:34:00,350 --> 00:33:58,380 anti-vaccination problem but it seems 784 00:34:04,310 --> 00:34:00,360 that the the right that author of the 785 00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:04,320 book Stephanie messenger has found a way 786 00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:08,190 to republish it through a it's a bit of 787 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:10,350 a strain I'm not that familiar with the 788 00:34:14,090 --> 00:34:12,690 publishing world but the part of the new 789 00:34:17,419 --> 00:34:14,100 publisher is a group by the name of 790 00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:17,429 Trafford publishing and they I think 791 00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:20,129 they're based in there is in the u.s. of 792 00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:22,200 the UK I can try that traffic is just 793 00:34:25,610 --> 00:34:24,030 outside Manchester yeah well that's all 794 00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:25,620 I was pretty sure than in UK bet one of 795 00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:28,080 my ancestors either way I don't get the 796 00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:29,220 impression that there's been much 797 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:31,260 editorial oversight because I think that 798 00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:33,570 the the publishing has come about really 799 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:34,950 through just that you know the purchase 800 00:34:39,590 --> 00:34:37,350 of a publishing package that they seem 801 00:34:43,399 --> 00:34:39,600 to offer and with that comes marketing 802 00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:43,409 and all sorts of stuff so won an essay 803 00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,679 VN member member noticed that the the 804 00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:49,200 book was actually now being sold on 805 00:34:59,570 --> 00:34:56,190 Amazon book depository book world angus 806 00:35:01,610 --> 00:34:59,580 and robertson booktopia and the nile and 807 00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:01,620 there i think there are a couple of 808 00:35:09,590 --> 00:35:05,760 others and so when this was brought to 809 00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:09,600 our attention we started a bit of a mini 810 00:35:15,020 --> 00:35:12,720 twitter campaign really first of all 811 00:35:16,060 --> 00:35:15,030 alerting these online booksellers of 812 00:35:19,070 --> 00:35:16,070 what it is that they were actually 813 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:19,080 stocking on their virtual shelves and 814 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:20,130 also just trying to bring the attention 815 00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:22,050 of the general public to the fact that 816 00:35:27,410 --> 00:35:25,440 this very dangerous book was freely 817 00:35:31,610 --> 00:35:27,420 available and being sold and marketed to 818 00:35:33,740 --> 00:35:31,620 kids yeah so this was not last saturday 819 00:35:36,290 --> 00:35:33,750 but that I think the Saturday before we 820 00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:36,300 alerted Amazon book depository and all 821 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:37,470 of the others that we could access 822 00:35:40,340 --> 00:35:39,090 through Twitter of 823 00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:40,350 you know what the book was about and 824 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:41,940 that it was really concerning that they 825 00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:43,170 were stocking a book which is basically 826 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:44,640 telling kids that they should try and 827 00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:48,410 contract deadly childhood diseases 828 00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:50,820 pleasingly we got an immediate response 829 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:53,910 from booktopia who the minute they found 830 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:55,530 out what the book was actually about and 831 00:35:58,660 --> 00:35:56,970 what they were stocking they took it off 832 00:36:01,340 --> 00:35:58,670 their shelves which I have to 833 00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:01,350 congratulate them for behaving as an 834 00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:04,080 ethical bookseller and dong and deciding 835 00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:06,270 not to not to hold it every other 836 00:36:11,770 --> 00:36:08,640 publisher however has been completely 837 00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:11,780 silent on the issue except for one 838 00:36:18,250 --> 00:36:15,750 denial oh sorry that's not true Book 839 00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:18,260 Depository and the Nile Book Depository 840 00:36:24,110 --> 00:36:21,660 responded to me basically claiming that 841 00:36:26,660 --> 00:36:24,120 we were trying to impinge on free speech 842 00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:26,670 and that we were that we were asking for 843 00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:28,950 the for the book to be banned and our 844 00:36:35,150 --> 00:36:32,310 response to book depository and also the 845 00:36:37,610 --> 00:36:35,160 Nile who today also came back with the 846 00:36:38,810 --> 00:36:37,620 same argument that the book we were 847 00:36:39,950 --> 00:36:38,820 asking for the book to be banned and 848 00:36:41,810 --> 00:36:39,960 that really it was not up to them to 849 00:36:44,060 --> 00:36:41,820 decide what people couldn't couldn't buy 850 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:44,070 our response to them is where do you 851 00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:46,710 draw the line yeah so they're saying 852 00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,060 that they're quite happy to stock a book 853 00:36:51,620 --> 00:36:50,400 that is telling children that it's a 854 00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,630 good idea for them to contract these 855 00:36:57,020 --> 00:36:53,760 diseases but would they stock a book on 856 00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:57,030 making bombs or would they stalk you 857 00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:58,560 know other dangerous and teachers alike 858 00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:00,960 to know where they draw the line then 859 00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:03,240 the danger is to stray into God winslet 860 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:05,910 yeah yeah yeah well they you know they 861 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:08,690 don't stop books on voluntary euthanasia 862 00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,210 know exactly you can't buy a book and 863 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:14,880 then kill yourself if you want to but 864 00:37:18,110 --> 00:37:16,890 it's okay for you to buy a book to give 865 00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:18,120 you kids a disease it will potentially 866 00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:21,510 kill them there's absolutely no logic I 867 00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,880 think it's really one of those sort of 868 00:37:26,330 --> 00:37:24,960 sticking their head in the sand because 869 00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:26,340 they somehow think maybe it'll set a 870 00:37:31,070 --> 00:37:28,920 precedent or whatever but I think that 871 00:37:32,930 --> 00:37:31,080 really it actually highlights a very 872 00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,940 important issue about the nature of the 873 00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,560 publishing industry and how things have 874 00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:36,240 changed now in terms of what people can 875 00:37:41,810 --> 00:37:37,740 actually get out there and distribute 876 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:41,820 and you know I think that when I know 877 00:37:45,260 --> 00:37:43,650 there are smaller booksellers that 878 00:37:47,210 --> 00:37:45,270 really take an ethical stance when it 879 00:37:50,089 --> 00:37:47,220 comes to publishing like in big and 880 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:50,099 books for example who I know you know 881 00:37:55,729 --> 00:37:52,170 put a lot of care detail into what they 882 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:55,739 publish now at this point we haven't 883 00:38:01,339 --> 00:37:58,170 heard anything back from amazon nothing 884 00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:01,349 further from Book Depository and/or 885 00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:02,880 angus and robertson i've sent letters to 886 00:38:06,529 --> 00:38:04,049 all of them and i haven't heard 887 00:38:09,859 --> 00:38:06,539 responses from them and I think you know 888 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:09,869 it's always a little bit nerve-wracking 889 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:12,210 when you take on these issues because 890 00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:13,890 you sometimes warrior you know we've had 891 00:38:16,819 --> 00:38:15,180 people say do you think you've not 892 00:38:18,769 --> 00:38:16,829 create a bit of a Streisand effect by 893 00:38:20,180 --> 00:38:18,779 you know getting publicity for the book 894 00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:20,190 but I think that really with something 895 00:38:23,059 --> 00:38:21,569 like this and this is something I've 896 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:23,069 always felt quite strongly about the 897 00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:25,410 majority of parents you know I think do 898 00:38:28,729 --> 00:38:26,940 vaccinate their kids and the majority of 899 00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:28,739 parents do you actually look at this 900 00:38:33,799 --> 00:38:30,390 kind of stuff and see how dangerous it 901 00:38:35,299 --> 00:38:33,809 is but I don't you know i'm not worried 902 00:38:36,769 --> 00:38:35,309 about those majority who will make the 903 00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:36,779 right decision for the kids i'm worried 904 00:38:41,059 --> 00:38:39,119 about that minority will make a decision 905 00:38:43,099 --> 00:38:41,069 that will actually end up harming their 906 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:43,109 own child or harming someone else's 907 00:38:47,779 --> 00:38:45,690 child and that's small my not you know 908 00:38:49,609 --> 00:38:47,789 and and and it's that small minority who 909 00:38:51,229 --> 00:38:49,619 were jumping up and down with glee at 910 00:38:53,749 --> 00:38:51,239 the fact that this book is out there and 911 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:53,759 think it's absolutely wonderful and i 912 00:38:56,749 --> 00:38:55,170 think that these booksellers really need 913 00:38:58,130 --> 00:38:56,759 to take a good heart long hard look at 914 00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:58,140 what they're putting on their shelves 915 00:39:01,700 --> 00:38:59,940 and behavior I think it's the right 916 00:39:04,459 --> 00:39:01,710 thing that light as being shed on this 917 00:39:06,769 --> 00:39:04,469 issue pleasingly I have to say you know 918 00:39:09,759 --> 00:39:06,779 huge thank you to Tori Shepherd from 919 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:09,769 news comdata you who broke the story on 920 00:39:16,609 --> 00:39:14,729 Tuesday so put a great article in their 921 00:39:19,039 --> 00:39:16,619 paper on Tuesday and it's since been 922 00:39:22,249 --> 00:39:19,049 picked up by a number of news outlets 923 00:39:26,140 --> 00:39:22,259 it's a well I think it's been on CNN and 924 00:39:28,999 --> 00:39:26,150 salon calm and Daily Telegraph in the UK 925 00:39:31,509 --> 00:39:29,009 yeah telegraphic hote UK but I think 926 00:39:35,359 --> 00:39:31,519 that it was actually picked up there by 927 00:39:38,299 --> 00:39:35,369 you know some of the UK skeptics and 928 00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:38,309 various on people hmm but I'm here in 929 00:39:41,839 --> 00:39:39,569 Australia it's getting a lot of media 930 00:39:43,309 --> 00:39:41,849 attention so Thank You Tory we are 931 00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:43,319 really pleased that that's happened I 932 00:39:46,339 --> 00:39:44,390 think it brings up an interesting 933 00:39:47,779 --> 00:39:46,349 discussion that you alluded to earlier 934 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:47,789 Joe and I think maybe we should have 935 00:39:52,549 --> 00:39:50,130 that discussion because as you mentioned 936 00:39:55,999 --> 00:39:52,559 the Streisand effect and is it actually 937 00:39:57,690 --> 00:39:56,009 worse to get this out there and we deal 938 00:39:59,890 --> 00:39:57,700 with this all the time 939 00:40:03,069 --> 00:39:59,900 trying to counteract anti-vaccine 940 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:03,079 material because I'm often have this 941 00:40:06,549 --> 00:40:05,150 prickly question of well just don't give 942 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:06,559 them oxygen it's better if you just 943 00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:08,930 don't give them oxygen but the trouble 944 00:40:12,940 --> 00:40:10,609 is this book was picked up by a major 945 00:40:14,859 --> 00:40:12,950 publisher and it's available on Amazon 946 00:40:17,410 --> 00:40:14,869 and it's available across all Amazon's 947 00:40:20,319 --> 00:40:17,420 and it's it's going to get seen by a lot 948 00:40:22,329 --> 00:40:20,329 of people and so once it gets that sort 949 00:40:23,710 --> 00:40:22,339 of exposure it's I think it's 950 00:40:25,509 --> 00:40:23,720 irresponsible for us to not do something 951 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:25,519 about it because it's already out there 952 00:40:30,579 --> 00:40:27,890 and sometimes that can result in a spike 953 00:40:32,319 --> 00:40:30,589 in interest in a spike in sales in the 954 00:40:34,569 --> 00:40:32,329 24 hour media cycle that we have now 955 00:40:37,509 --> 00:40:34,579 that will that will go down and quite 956 00:40:40,989 --> 00:40:37,519 quickly but if we just let this stuff 957 00:40:42,999 --> 00:40:40,999 fizzle out without counteracting it or 958 00:40:44,980 --> 00:40:43,009 without trying to rebut it then people 959 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:44,990 only remember that spike you know they 960 00:40:49,509 --> 00:40:46,730 don't remember that there were other 961 00:40:51,279 --> 00:40:49,519 people saying this is bad was in a 962 00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:51,289 difficult position I'm looking at the 963 00:40:55,359 --> 00:40:52,880 list here on this piece of paper of all 964 00:40:57,039 --> 00:40:55,369 the the references has had all that the 965 00:40:58,989 --> 00:40:57,049 media coverage including local radio 966 00:41:01,359 --> 00:40:58,999 here in Sydney and as you were saying 967 00:41:03,489 --> 00:41:01,369 before various international websites 968 00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:03,499 and universally they have been 969 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:05,119 condemning it but I have to say one of 970 00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:06,410 the things I didn't mention was some 971 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:08,089 that the attitude of the of the 972 00:41:13,809 --> 00:41:09,890 booksellers such as Book Depository was 973 00:41:15,759 --> 00:41:13,819 that people can go on and put reviews 974 00:41:18,099 --> 00:41:15,769 online and that the reviews will really 975 00:41:19,509 --> 00:41:18,109 dictate people's views because people 976 00:41:20,739 --> 00:41:19,519 will go on and they'll review the book 977 00:41:22,870 --> 00:41:20,749 and they'll see the reviews and you know 978 00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:22,880 people will therefore respond to that I 979 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:24,920 don't agree with that I don't think 980 00:41:28,269 --> 00:41:26,210 that's the case especially these days 981 00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:28,279 with you know the way things tend to 982 00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:31,609 work unfortunately is that you know 983 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:32,960 those of us who are very passionate 984 00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:34,970 about dealing with the anti-vaccination 985 00:41:39,099 --> 00:41:36,710 issue the minute something like this 986 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:39,109 happens we will all crowd onto a website 987 00:41:43,180 --> 00:41:41,210 and leave our responses and challenge 988 00:41:44,859 --> 00:41:43,190 the anti-vaccination arguments and the 989 00:41:46,660 --> 00:41:44,869 anti-vaxxers will jump on and do the 990 00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:46,670 same thing so the average person out 991 00:41:49,989 --> 00:41:48,319 there I think will be a little bit kind 992 00:41:52,180 --> 00:41:49,999 of overwhelmed by a whole lot of people 993 00:41:54,609 --> 00:41:52,190 or madly kind of you know battling each 994 00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:54,619 other over these issues I'm not really 995 00:41:58,960 --> 00:41:56,960 wanting to kind of get involved too much 996 00:42:01,420 --> 00:41:58,970 in that themselves I think most people 997 00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:01,430 just want to go in read an article walk 998 00:42:06,549 --> 00:42:03,980 away or make their purchase and so I 999 00:42:08,499 --> 00:42:06,559 guess it comes back to the whole point 1000 00:42:09,819 --> 00:42:08,509 about suppression of free speech and 1001 00:42:12,130 --> 00:42:09,829 what is free speech 1002 00:42:13,809 --> 00:42:12,140 and you know the whole idea that yelling 1003 00:42:16,059 --> 00:42:13,819 fire in a crowded theater is not 1004 00:42:17,620 --> 00:42:16,069 acceptable you can get arrested for 1005 00:42:19,509 --> 00:42:17,630 doing that what isn't that a suppression 1006 00:42:21,459 --> 00:42:19,519 of my free speech why can't I go into a 1007 00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:21,469 theater and say that well I don't see 1008 00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:23,180 the difference with this I don't see why 1009 00:42:26,709 --> 00:42:24,910 this should be allowed because 1010 00:42:28,749 --> 00:42:26,719 publishers are worried about hurting 1011 00:42:30,670 --> 00:42:28,759 people's feelings I mean the thing is 1012 00:42:32,529 --> 00:42:30,680 this book will still be available you'll 1013 00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:32,539 still be able to buy it for example you 1014 00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:33,920 can bite through the avian website 1015 00:42:38,529 --> 00:42:36,109 however i wouldn't recommend you go 1016 00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:38,539 there because the site is so hacked that 1017 00:42:42,359 --> 00:42:40,880 you're probably like end up with flights 1018 00:42:45,789 --> 00:42:42,369 to the Bahamas on your credit card 1019 00:42:47,949 --> 00:42:45,799 before the day is out but it's not like 1020 00:42:49,870 --> 00:42:47,959 this is trying to stop the book being 1021 00:42:51,489 --> 00:42:49,880 available it's just looked at me I think 1022 00:42:52,989 --> 00:42:51,499 that's the point I'm trying to make as 1023 00:42:55,449 --> 00:42:52,999 well is that we're not talking about 1024 00:42:58,269 --> 00:42:55,459 banning the book we're talking about a 1025 00:43:00,039 --> 00:42:58,279 business making an ethical decision 1026 00:43:02,049 --> 00:43:00,049 about what it chooses to have on it's 1027 00:43:03,609 --> 00:43:02,059 shelves and that is something that is a 1028 00:43:05,049 --> 00:43:03,619 business decision that is something a 1029 00:43:06,729 --> 00:43:05,059 business can make a decision about 1030 00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:06,739 happens all the time I mean that happens 1031 00:43:10,209 --> 00:43:08,420 with pharmacies in this country some 1032 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:10,219 pharmacist won't sell you the emergency 1033 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:11,450 contraceptive pill because that's 1034 00:43:15,759 --> 00:43:13,249 against their beliefs pharmacies 1035 00:43:17,469 --> 00:43:15,769 although fart if you won't so let me up 1036 00:43:19,779 --> 00:43:17,479 with me because they've been ripping you 1037 00:43:21,699 --> 00:43:19,789 off and nobody is saying well that's 1038 00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:21,709 suppressing my ability to get homeopathy 1039 00:43:25,390 --> 00:43:23,209 you just go down the road to the next 1040 00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:25,400 place and pharmacies will c OE candles 1041 00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,910 well exactly but this is not an issue of 1042 00:43:32,259 --> 00:43:30,319 suppressing freedom of speech and about 1043 00:43:33,609 --> 00:43:32,269 burning books and you know someone 1044 00:43:35,049 --> 00:43:33,619 brought up this brought this up 1045 00:43:38,949 --> 00:43:35,059 somewhere on a thread today that I saw 1046 00:43:40,930 --> 00:43:38,959 that well you know you can now buy mine 1047 00:43:42,279 --> 00:43:40,940 come through amazon so why shouldn't you 1048 00:43:45,189 --> 00:43:42,289 be able to buy this book and it's like 1049 00:43:47,229 --> 00:43:45,199 okay come on I knew God moving forward 1050 00:43:48,819 --> 00:43:47,239 coming stretching it a little bit far I 1051 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:48,829 mean the reason why you can buy mine 1052 00:43:53,739 --> 00:43:51,890 comes now is for historical purposes so 1053 00:43:56,049 --> 00:43:53,749 we can understand the history of Germany 1054 00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:56,059 and I thought is my understanding as I 1055 00:43:59,529 --> 00:43:57,680 seem to remember that's that bullets 1056 00:44:02,380 --> 00:43:59,539 back I school and in German in German 1057 00:44:04,539 --> 00:44:02,390 okay right but it was available in 1058 00:44:07,250 --> 00:44:04,549 bookstores but for historical or its 1059 00:44:10,430 --> 00:44:07,260 targeted historical documents 1060 00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:10,440 yes so we do one thing on our side yes 1061 00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:14,880 it's a terrible book it's absolutely 1062 00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:18,180 right to be awful the illustrations are 1063 00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:21,150 just terrible it's it's an absolute pack 1064 00:44:26,930 --> 00:44:24,390 job I mean it's been confused messages 1065 00:44:28,580 --> 00:44:26,940 Maitland's it yeah look confuse a great 1066 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:28,590 day where's that review of the book it's 1067 00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:31,650 on there's a great review of the guilty 1068 00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:34,110 cat skeptic at in the UK yeah they did a 1069 00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:35,760 review of the book it's wonderful would 1070 00:44:40,130 --> 00:44:38,190 review yeah yeah yeah Oh Rachel I 1071 00:44:42,410 --> 00:44:40,140 understand it's your mum's birthday it 1072 00:44:43,940 --> 00:44:42,420 is my mom's birthday that's mentor and I 1073 00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:43,950 have to give a shout-out to my boyfriend 1074 00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:49,500 as well because he reminded me now I 1075 00:44:52,370 --> 00:44:50,820 know your mum she's a wonderful 1076 00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,380 character what a sense of humor yeah 1077 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:54,480 she's a bit crazy so she got some she 1078 00:44:58,340 --> 00:44:56,610 got some flowers today sent from her 1079 00:45:00,560 --> 00:44:58,350 spider that lives in her bathroom when 1080 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:00,570 she holds tomorrow we should somehow 1081 00:45:04,610 --> 00:45:02,130 knew it was her birthday and sent her 1082 00:45:09,770 --> 00:45:04,620 some lilies so that's how crazy she is 1083 00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:09,780 but yeah happy birthday mom her name's 1084 00:45:15,350 --> 00:45:13,020 mini by the way you need minions your 1085 00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,360 dad of course but now I know your dad 1086 00:45:19,310 --> 00:45:17,280 he's a really well-respected man and 1087 00:45:21,020 --> 00:45:19,320 he's got of the order of australia of 1088 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:21,030 course in order to say but I think our 1089 00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:23,130 international friends would be probably 1090 00:45:26,990 --> 00:45:24,720 aware that at the moment we're 1091 00:45:29,210 --> 00:45:27,000 experiencing some rather elevated 1092 00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:29,220 temperatures in this country and in fact 1093 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:31,350 the weather bureau had to change the 1094 00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:34,010 colors on the scale for the heat 1095 00:45:38,780 --> 00:45:36,720 recently you wear the hottest used to be 1096 00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:38,790 bright red or deep red and they had to 1097 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:40,710 change it to purple yeah yeah to 1098 00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:43,290 indicate 50-plus degrees new temperature 1099 00:45:47,180 --> 00:45:45,510 new temperatures yeah and so we 1100 00:45:48,590 --> 00:45:47,190 experienced in some pretty bad bushfires 1101 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:48,600 as we normally do at this time of the 1102 00:45:52,130 --> 00:45:50,610 year and what both my parents work for 1103 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:52,140 the Volunteer Fire Service and my dad's 1104 00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:53,730 recently been promoted to the chief 1105 00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:56,460 commander or something so he has to 1106 00:46:00,860 --> 00:45:58,920 delegate where the appliances go and the 1107 00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:00,870 appliances being the fire engines but 1108 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:11,540 and where the egg beaters go that's what 1109 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:15,090 we want yeah I mean the thing is we may 1110 00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,650 be our international friends don't 1111 00:46:20,270 --> 00:46:18,480 realize this but most of the people that 1112 00:46:23,570 --> 00:46:20,280 work on the bushfires in this country of 1113 00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,580 volunteers yes yeah yeah largest 1114 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:25,440 volunteer organization in the world it 1115 00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:27,450 wouldn't be surprising I wouldn't be 1116 00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:28,950 surprising especially in the last few 1117 00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:30,900 days it's been horrendous yeah so you 1118 00:46:35,660 --> 00:46:32,910 know kudos to our five miners because 1119 00:46:37,610 --> 00:46:35,670 Jerusalem yeah she's 20 man hopefully I 1120 00:46:39,380 --> 00:46:37,620 photos well the opening your problems 1121 00:46:42,110 --> 00:46:39,390 just summer but I dare say that obably 1122 00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:42,120 will unfortunately stupid people stop 1123 00:46:47,660 --> 00:46:45,390 lighting fires please do yes yes now of 1124 00:46:49,970 --> 00:46:47,670 course it's very exciting we're in the 1125 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:49,980 middle of maynards wonderful reports 1126 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:52,290 coming back from the national convention 1127 00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,330 held in melbourne a few months ago which 1128 00:46:58,610 --> 00:46:56,640 was what a great convention that was and 1129 00:47:00,020 --> 00:46:58,620 we're so excited that the next 1130 00:47:02,420 --> 00:47:00,030 convention is going to be in Canberra 1131 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:02,430 their nation's capital I was only 1132 00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:04,170 speaking to the Canberra skeptics today 1133 00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:06,000 very early days yet and planning but 1134 00:47:09,350 --> 00:47:07,440 they're very excited I think it's going 1135 00:47:11,570 --> 00:47:09,360 to be a wonderful convention all I can 1136 00:47:13,580 --> 00:47:11,580 say is watch this space more information 1137 00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:13,590 as the months go by about the next 1138 00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:15,660 Australian skeptics convention if you 1139 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:19,110 miss the melbourne convention don't miss 1140 00:47:23,390 --> 00:47:20,730 the canberra convention it's going to be 1141 00:47:24,980 --> 00:47:23,400 wonderful lots of special guests we 1142 00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,990 can't wait for that but Joe you've got 1143 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:26,160 information about something that's 1144 00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:28,410 coming up even before them yeah unknown 1145 00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:34,560 on my birthday actually 21 yes 1146 00:47:40,610 --> 00:47:38,940 absolutely forever um so on the 9th of 1147 00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,620 februari this year we're going to be 1148 00:47:45,740 --> 00:47:42,720 having a repeat of last year's fabulous 1149 00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:45,750 Surf Coast summer skeptic app which for 1150 00:47:49,610 --> 00:47:47,640 those of you who want to make your way 1151 00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:49,620 down to the lovely great ocean road in 1152 00:47:55,130 --> 00:47:53,280 Victoria macfag gorgeous area it is 1153 00:47:57,770 --> 00:47:55,140 beautiful yeah I'm gonna make a little 1154 00:48:00,350 --> 00:47:57,780 holiday out of I think so Mick vague is 1155 00:48:03,620 --> 00:48:00,360 organizing another surfcomber skepta 1156 00:48:05,930 --> 00:48:03,630 camp it's just a one-day fairly you know 1157 00:48:08,690 --> 00:48:05,940 short day event so if you want to just 1158 00:48:11,090 --> 00:48:08,700 pop down skip camp if you don't know is 1159 00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,100 completely free you can register online 1160 00:48:15,470 --> 00:48:12,720 if you just Google Surf Coast I'm a 1161 00:48:18,110 --> 00:48:15,480 skeptic amp and it should be a lovely 1162 00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:18,120 day what was that date again that would 1163 00:48:23,060 --> 00:48:20,880 be Saturday be ninth of februari there 1164 00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:23,070 you go excellent news and speaking of 1165 00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:24,510 things that you can look at on the 1166 00:48:27,980 --> 00:48:26,040 Internet Joe the very exciting news 1167 00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:27,990 about the Australian skeptics facebook 1168 00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,730 yes it's been a long time coming we've 1169 00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:31,440 been a little bit tardy to the party as 1170 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:35,250 they say so we finally got ourselves a 1171 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:37,530 formal facebook page for Australian 1172 00:48:45,950 --> 00:48:42,210 skeptics pink um you can find it on the 1173 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:45,960 Internet unsurprisingly in silence just 1174 00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:48,570 go to Facebook and if you're already a 1175 00:48:51,740 --> 00:48:50,280 member of the facebook group there's a 1176 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:51,750 link in the facebook group otherwise 1177 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:53,490 just look up Australian skeptics in 1178 00:48:57,230 --> 00:48:55,770 facebook and come and like the page 1179 00:48:58,670 --> 00:48:57,240 it'll be a really good place to find out 1180 00:49:00,380 --> 00:48:58,680 what's going on we'll be keeping people 1181 00:49:02,210 --> 00:49:00,390 up to date with things the facebook 1182 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:02,220 group is probably going to be still 1183 00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:04,770 going for well it's probably so going to 1184 00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:05,880 be going because it's a great place 1185 00:49:10,100 --> 00:49:08,460 where people to have a chat so there you 1186 00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:10,110 go check it out folks there'll be a link 1187 00:49:13,730 --> 00:49:12,240 in the show notes of course and we're 1188 00:49:15,850 --> 00:49:13,740 going to wrap it up in a minute and runs 1189 00:49:20,330 --> 00:49:15,860 got something to tell us without them 1190 00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:20,340 wonderful music in the background once 1191 00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:22,110 we have made out actually this isn't I 1192 00:49:26,330 --> 00:49:23,790 was just about to mention may not it's 1193 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:26,340 um we're very sorry may not can't be 1194 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:27,690 with us tonight boo a certain he's 1195 00:49:33,110 --> 00:49:29,490 certainly in our thoughts and we thank 1196 00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:33,120 him for his outstanding effort to the 1197 00:49:36,620 --> 00:49:35,040 skeptic zone really it's it's just 1198 00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,630 extraordinary and he's interview with 1199 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:38,880 Brian Dunning on today's show was really 1200 00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:41,370 good so a big shout-out to our dear 1201 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:42,990 friend may not can't wait to see him 1202 00:49:48,740 --> 00:49:46,890 again sooner so much I know well the 1203 00:49:51,050 --> 00:49:48,750 thing that's funny though is that I was 1204 00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:51,060 such a huge fan of his in the 90s and 1205 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:53,700 then I by accident found out that he was 1206 00:49:58,220 --> 00:49:56,010 sort of a fan of skepticism and I went 1207 00:50:01,010 --> 00:49:58,230 to interviewed him and I was so squeeze 1208 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:01,020 it was like I remember when you first 1209 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:02,730 said that you know Maynard was coming 1210 00:50:09,620 --> 00:50:04,410 along to the skeptic zone and I'm like 1211 00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,630 that you know the first time I think the 1212 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:11,280 first time I met him was here at this 1213 00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:14,010 club and I walked in and there he was 1214 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:15,780 standing here I thought myself just 1215 00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:18,090 marina it's really thank didn't read and 1216 00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:20,240 I think he came to he came to the clown 1217 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:22,240 he came to the you know you 1218 00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:23,890 might be right but the first time I saw 1219 00:50:28,590 --> 00:50:26,110 it was like um that that really is made 1220 00:50:30,359 --> 00:50:28,600 up you know it's just incredibly I still 1221 00:50:32,220 --> 00:50:30,369 get fit feel that way sometimes when I 1222 00:50:37,230 --> 00:50:32,230 see was like oh yeah that's me now 1223 00:50:39,450 --> 00:50:37,240 that's ridiculous this Iran yeah so the 1224 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:39,460 Razzies were announced i believe it was 1225 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:42,490 yesterday and uh there as he's uh there 1226 00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:43,930 has even much so much better than the 1227 00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:46,510 oscar something it's interesting by the 1228 00:50:49,710 --> 00:50:48,070 time the show goes out everybody will 1229 00:50:51,810 --> 00:50:49,720 know value of course so their aziz are 1230 00:50:53,790 --> 00:50:51,820 the the golden raspberry awards the 1231 00:50:56,070 --> 00:50:53,800 there'll be a announced handed out on 1232 00:50:57,420 --> 00:50:56,080 februari 23rd for somebody there a 1233 00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:57,430 little bit like the bent spoon people 1234 00:51:01,859 --> 00:50:58,960 don't come don't show up to get the 1235 00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,869 award i'm not going to go into lots of 1236 00:51:05,490 --> 00:51:03,040 detail there's a couple of things I want 1237 00:51:07,950 --> 00:51:05,500 to mention first of all a few movies 1238 00:51:09,420 --> 00:51:07,960 star they're like you're like the names 1239 00:51:12,270 --> 00:51:09,430 come up again again one of these that's 1240 00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:12,280 my boy with Adam Sandler I mean Adam 1241 00:51:16,380 --> 00:51:14,230 Sandler's up for a yeah who would have 1242 00:51:17,730 --> 00:51:16,390 thought put a thought but he also wanted 1243 00:51:20,340 --> 00:51:17,740 there is an organization called the 1244 00:51:26,970 --> 00:51:20,350 Alliance of women film journalists and 1245 00:51:29,250 --> 00:51:26,980 they've given him the misogyny how they 1246 00:51:32,250 --> 00:51:29,260 put they've put the movie into the 1247 00:51:34,349 --> 00:51:32,260 misogyny hall of shame who would have 1248 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:34,359 thought again Adam sauna but what I 1249 00:51:38,250 --> 00:51:36,130 really liked was the fact that be the 1250 00:51:41,790 --> 00:51:38,260 twilight saga The Twilight Saga Breaking 1251 00:51:48,750 --> 00:51:41,800 Dawn Part 2 features in every single 1252 00:51:50,370 --> 00:51:48,760 category in some categories twice listen 1253 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:50,380 to this just listen to this the worst 1254 00:51:57,799 --> 00:51:53,530 screen couple is any two cast members 1255 00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:01,289 so yeah and then and and again this is 1256 00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,250 another place where Twilight Saga 1257 00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:05,440 features twice so they have like there's 1258 00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:07,359 10 awards all together and they have 1259 00:52:11,519 --> 00:52:09,609 something like 40 nominations has 1260 00:52:14,130 --> 00:52:11,529 anybody actually seen anything in the 1261 00:52:16,140 --> 00:52:14,140 twilight saga no no no we're not the 1262 00:52:21,660 --> 00:52:16,150 demographic aren't we oh we too old no 1263 00:52:23,789 --> 00:52:21,670 sir whoever three times we go oh great 1264 00:52:25,319 --> 00:52:23,799 um there's a great discussion of any of 1265 00:52:27,900 --> 00:52:25,329 you've seen the movie liberal arts it's 1266 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:27,910 quite lovely but part of the whole movie 1267 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:30,970 is you know the absolute snobbery of the 1268 00:52:38,519 --> 00:52:33,010 main character who's refusing to read 1269 00:52:40,769 --> 00:52:38,529 this very popular vampire novel actually 1270 00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:40,779 just speaking on misogyny I want to tell 1271 00:52:44,460 --> 00:52:42,609 you the name of the david hasselhoff 1272 00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:44,470 movie it's being nominated David 1273 00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,480 Hasselhoff himself was was dominated as 1274 00:52:55,019 --> 00:52:48,400 the worst Supporting Actor but the name 1275 00:52:57,890 --> 00:52:55,029 of the movies piranha 3dd piranha 3dd 1276 00:53:01,039 --> 00:52:57,900 devil do 1277 00:53:04,279 --> 00:53:01,049 is that promise at porn I don't think 1278 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:04,289 it's like it's not is it's it's it's 1279 00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:06,690 like it's just be great kind of you know 1280 00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,480 gratuitous BB great BB good idea on that 1281 00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:14,160 interesting note I'd like to thank 1282 00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:15,960 everybody for coming back to the think 1283 00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:17,460 tank it's been a while I know we should 1284 00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,260 do it more often let's see let's do it 1285 00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,599 more often it's a wonderful thing and I 1286 00:53:27,289 --> 00:53:24,000 hope delicious enjoy hearing out i'd 1287 00:53:30,019 --> 00:53:27,299 like i'd like to make 2013 a antibes x a 1288 00:53:32,269 --> 00:53:30,029 free year I'll drink to that so for 1289 00:53:35,799 --> 00:53:32,279 everybody to Diane has dr. late you to 1290 00:53:58,720 --> 00:53:35,809 Iran as his Joe cheers from of the years 1291 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:01,310 last year who stood cancer crap 1292 00:54:05,420 --> 00:54:03,570 Stanislaw Burzynski made headlines 1293 00:54:07,490 --> 00:54:05,430 around the world when someone had had 1294 00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:07,500 issued legal threats to bloggers who 1295 00:54:10,940 --> 00:54:09,150 called him out for charging patients 1296 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:10,950 hundreds of thousands of dollars to 1297 00:54:16,220 --> 00:54:13,050 enroll in so-called clinical trials for 1298 00:54:17,870 --> 00:54:16,230 over 35 years this year the skeptics for 1299 00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:17,880 the protection of cancer patients is 1300 00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:19,410 raising funds for st. jude children's 1301 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:22,110 research hospital we want to raise at 1302 00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:23,970 least thirty thousand dollars the cost 1303 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:25,380 of enrolling in one of missing skis 1304 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:28,290 trials on his 70th birthday January the 1305 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:30,450 23rd were going to issue a challenge to 1306 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:32,130 the Burzynski clinic to match the total 1307 00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,170 funds raised by skeptics and supporters 1308 00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:36,240 of good science visit the who's to 1309 00:54:55,020 --> 00:54:38,310 cancer quack calm and give until it 1310 00:54:59,859 --> 00:54:57,640 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1311 00:55:01,930 --> 00:54:59,869 zone coming up in the next couple of 1312 00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:01,940 weeks more interviews with very 1313 00:55:06,460 --> 00:55:04,400 prominent skeptics are from Maynard of 1314 00:55:07,950 --> 00:55:06,470 course and his time the Australian 1315 00:55:10,089 --> 00:55:07,960 skeptics national convention in 1316 00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:10,099 Melbourne and we're still raving about 1317 00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:11,890 it what a great time it was again 1318 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:13,760 congratulations to the Melbourne people 1319 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:15,530 for such a wonderful convention and 1320 00:55:20,620 --> 00:55:17,930 there'll be more dr. Reggie report sir 1321 00:55:22,420 --> 00:55:20,630 my twist the arm of around so given Joe 1322 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:22,430 better moved for some more segments who 1323 00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:25,010 knows maybe penny Chan can chip in or 1324 00:55:29,109 --> 00:55:26,930 even Travis Roy all the way over there 1325 00:55:31,539 --> 00:55:29,119 on the east coast of the United States 1326 00:55:33,250 --> 00:55:31,549 and before I go another thank you to 1327 00:55:35,230 --> 00:55:33,260 those wonderful people who chip in to 1328 00:55:38,140 --> 00:55:35,240 the skeptic zone to make sure we can 1329 00:55:41,289 --> 00:55:38,150 keep it going keep it on the air so to 1330 00:55:43,690 --> 00:55:41,299 speak we're starting to I off Las Vegas 1331 00:55:45,549 --> 00:55:43,700 folks we're starting to think about what 1332 00:55:47,980 --> 00:55:45,559 we can do who can we send to Las Vegas 1333 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:47,990 to get more interviews for your 1334 00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:50,210 listening pleasure now we'll see we'll 1335 00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:52,910 see but for now this is Richard Saunders 1336 00:56:03,220 --> 00:55:59,839 signing off from Sydney Australia you've 1337 00:56:07,809 --> 00:56:03,230 been listening to the skeptic zone visit 1338 00:56:10,299 --> 00:56:07,819 her website at www skeptics on TV the